Water Plant PFI or Trust

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Water Plant PFI or Trust

KevinJGibbs
Hello All Members,

I'm trying to establish how many Renal Units Waterplants are looked after by either PFI or Trust Renal Technicians.

This is because our current water system we took over from PFI 10 years ago and it is now obsolete and with it being under trust contol we are finding it hard to find a case to replace it! Speaking to some PFI friends, if it was still under there control they would of started to replace it.

Have anyone else out there experienced the same issues?

Whos water plant is under PFI control and who isn't?

Regards

Kevin
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

Ian Wilde
Administrator
Hi Kevin,

We sit in a PFI build but the water plant is owned and run by the Trust.  

Surely if you get this plant of your on your Trust risk register is should be scoring very high!  Just what would they do with all those patients if you lost your water!?

Water not just essential for dialysis, it is part of a medical prescription for the patient and any consultant worth their salt should appreciate its importance.

Perhaps some water companies out there may be able to install a new one and lease it back to your Trust if there is no capital available to commission a new one?

The risk register seems the strongest argument to start with though.
Ian Wilde
Renal Tech
Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

fraser gilmour
Hi Kevin,
We don't have any PFI builds down here, just a mixture of in-house and contracted private provider units. In-house equipment is all on a capital replacement register with an 'expected' replacement date. As these dates approach we are asked to assess each item on the risk of not replacing. If there are no clinical/financial benefits in replacing, and the equipment can still be maintained safely, it should be pushed back to the next financial year when another assessment is made.
We currently have one water plant being considered for early replacement due to being served a notice of obsolescence by the supplier. However it is still not considered high risk as we have 100% redundancy and we can still get parts to repair it.
The privately run units are on 10 year contracts so the equipment in these contracts will follow that replacement timeframe.      
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

Garry
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by KevinJGibbs
Hi,

We have 5 sites with only one being maintained through PFI.  Due to the age of the PFI plant a condition appraisal was requested and this resulted in the plant being pencilled in for replacement next year.  Frequency of failures and supply issues are monitored at out Trust water management group so this replacement date can be reviewed if needed.  

Our in-house plants are placed on the risk register and replacement considered dependant on risk, amount of capital available and comparison with other capital funded risks within the Trust.  Unfortunately, as long as appropriate quality water is being supplied at the point of use I have found it difficult to convey the risk level to others outside of the renal field.  Though saying that, once treatments begin to be impacted by plant issues things get escalated quite quickly.
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

KevinJGibbs
In reply to this post by Ian Wilde
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the reply.

We have a Purite RO75 system that is now obsolete and some of the major parts are no longer supported. i.e. PLC, Tanks, Controllers. Purite did send out a letter stating this.

We have had problems and it is on the Trust Risk Register.

Also we have done a Business Case to replace it with another system and we have recieved quotes!

But our Directorate Manager say because the system is producing good quality water and is looked after well there is no technical arguement for the case to replace it!!!! Our Lead Clinician now has to put their arguement forward.

I understand we are our worst enemy as do a good job looking after it and ensuring it produces high quality RO water, but I fear that we are sometimes just fire fighting the system so to speak!

I know a Unit is Glasgow I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) had the same system as us and have recently replaced it. It was still under PFI control replaced because it became obsolete.

I just feel totally frustrated as the hurdles/barriers I'm coming up against, and at the end of the day this is a Medical Device which produces a patient prescription!

Have anyone else had similar experiences and how did they overcome them?

Regards

Kevin
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

Chris Bates
Hi Kevin,

What level have you put the risk at ?

We have a 18 year old plant at 20 on the risk register, but we are opening a new unit next year so we are keeping it going for now. (Hasn't ever given us real trouble - touch wood)

What are the consequences of total failure?

Potentially huge costs if patients need to be dialysed elsewhere, NHS or private, transport, staffing extra shifts, Sunday or night shifts, loss of reputation and bad publicity, stress for patients and staff.

Do you have contingency plans for total failure ?
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

Roger Moore
In reply to this post by KevinJGibbs
Hi Kevin

It may also be useful to look at MHRA Managing Medical Devices and bring some of the pertinent points to the table, particularly those around managing and replacing devices/systems.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/421028/Managing_medical_devices_-_Apr_2015.pdf
Kind regards

Roger
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Re: Water Plant PFI or Trust

John Nixon
In reply to this post by KevinJGibbs
Hi Kevin

You are correct we have two of these systems in our PFI builds both are due to be replaced this year as they obselete
. They are still under the control of the PFI.