Equipment lifespan

[fraser gilmour]

Having just seen some FMC 5008 machines up for auction with around 33000 hrs on the clock I was wondering how long everyone is trying to run their machines? We have them on our capital replacement program at ten years, which equates to around 45K hrs for us. I think the 5008 came on the market around 2005? so the oldest ones should be around 12 years. Are any of these first machines still in use?

Fraser

[Chris Bates]

Hi Fraser we have some 10 year old 5008s with 45000 hrs which we will be running for another year,
I did get a 7 year rolling replacement programme agreed but of course that hasn't really happened
Starting to show signs of age now but still not costing a huge amount.
When we got rid of the last 15+ year old 4008s with 60000+ hours they were out of action 19x as often as our 5008s !
Chris

[Ian Wilde]

Hi Fraser,

Our oldest 5008 machines are just over 10 years old, around 40-50,000 hrs on the clock.  No replacement plan as long as parts are available.  

Our machines are a bit like Trigger's old broom.

[mike.jones]

I am just about to scrap our 2002 4008’s with 55-65k on the clock 😵
We still use 2004-2011 4008’s along with 5008’s.
We are aiming for a 12 year replacement program but we shall see.

[fraser gilmour]

Thanks guys.
I've just had a rep ask me what I think about the RA "guidance" on replacing equipment after 7 years, and it was also brought up recently by a CQC auditor quoting the same "RA guidance". As far as I can see there is no current RA recommendation on this, and the last thing I can find relating to equipment was in a 2009 version, stating it was only a (2C) weak recommendation with no firm evidence to support it. See below
Where did 7 years come from? does anyone know if this is a requirement for equipment manufacturers after last date of manufacture? Where did 40000 hours come from?

Guideline 2.3 - HD: Haemodialyis equipment and disposables
We suggest that machines should be replaced after between seven and ten years’ service or after completing
between 25,000 and 40,000 hours of use for haemodialysis, depending upon an assessment of machine
condition (2C).
Rationale
The routine maintenance of the equipment used for renal replacement therapy is essential and the service history of each
machine should be documented fully throughout its use-life by the renal unit technicians. Renal units should endeavour to
adopt a programme of phased replacement of older HD machines. Although it is possible to keep a dialysis machine
operating safely for many years, practical considerations of obsolescence and maintenance costs require a more structured
approach. When a particular model of a machine becomes obsolete, companies generally only undertake to supply
replacement parts for seven years. Intensive use of HD machines for three 4 hour shifts per day, 6 days per week would
complete 26208 hours of use after 7 years. We accept that there is no firm evidence that replacement, as suggested
above, is the most cost-effective strategy.

[Ian Wilde]

Hi Fraser,

I know when the spares were to be withdrawn for the 4008 machine we were given 7 years notice.  I think Gambro gave 10 year notice on the AK200s machines.

Its a difficult one. I know when I started my old boss told me that machines would last 7 years or around 20,000hrs.  We were talking Ak100 machines here and after 7 years they probably would be a bit problematic.  Personally I haven't had a 5008 keep returning to the workshop with various faults you may put down to as "the machine is just old".  I have seen them return to the workshop on more than one occasion but that's because it wasn't repaired properly in the first place!  (went through heat, went through test and now I'll chuck it back out syndrome)

These days I personally feel that age or hours of machine is no longer that important as long as parts can be bought.  So if most if not all companies will give 7 years notice I see the managing of that period more important.  A machine replacement program won't help you if you're going to have to move to a different machine.

We've had brand new machines in the past which have been more problematic than the older ones - sometimes there are just gremlins in there, sometimes the manufacturer has changed a manufacturing technique or supplier (leaking rinse chambers, sub standard gold plating on connectors, plastics cracking anyone!?)

Guidance is only guidance at the end of the day - it isn't law

The guidance would be better off being left at:

The routine maintenance of the equipment used for renal replacement therapy is essential and the service history of each
machine should be documented fully throughout its use-life by the renal unit technicians.
Although it is possible to keep a dialysis machine operating safely for many years, practical considerations of obsolescence and maintenance costs should be considered when it comes to replacement. When a particular model of a machine becomes obsolete, companies generally only undertake to supply replacement parts for seven years.


We've seen from other posts the variation in how long people will run their machines for.  Guidance is one thing - reality with directorate accountants and clinicians can be a completely different beast!

[Roger Moore]

Hi all

Just throwing something extra into the mix here. Locally as a Trust we work on the following as an indication of when to replace capital value medical devices:
5 years - ultrasounds
7 years - all other medical devices not replaced at 5 or 10 years
10 years - plant, big ticket items such as Linear Accelerators, etc.

Also take into account other guidance such as RA and their operating hours. Devices still in service after their recommended lifespan will be supported by risk assessments and control measures.